By “It [the 2019 impeachment] was over a phone call with the president, and … he could have grandstanded and played cute. But he didn’t do that. He said President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong. He said it loud and clear.”
—Former president Donald Trump, remarks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at Trump Tower, Sept. 27
Zelensky was largely silent and emotionless as Trump made these remarks, which were similar to those Trump made many times before his first impeachment trial in 2020. But here’s the truth: Zelensky said no such thing. In 2019 and 2020, he carefully walked a fine line, not wanting to offend a sitting president. Today, in public, he only remarked, “I hope we have more good relations” during Trump’s comments.
Let’s go down memory lane and see what really happened.
The Facts
On July 25, 2019, Trump and Zelensky spoke by phone. It was not a typical presidential call.
Normally, a president, speaking to a foreign counterpart, works off a set of carefully prepared talking points that cover a range of issues. Trump appeared to have no agenda except to ask the Ukrainian government to work with his private attorney, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, to investigate a potential 2020 presidential rival — Joe Biden — and look into debunked conspiracy theories about possible interference by Ukraine in the 2016 election. For his part, Zelensky wanted a firm date for a White House meeting, which Trump dangled but did not deliver.
Officials from the White House and the State Department listened in on the call, as usual. Several testified before Congress that they were disturbed by it. “I thought it was wrong. I thought it was wrong for the president of the United States to call for an investigation of — call a foreign power to investigate a U.S. citizen,” said Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the top National Security Council staff member for Ukraine. He reported his concerns to the NSC legal adviser.
Trump’s call “struck me as unusual and inappropriate,” Jennifer Williams, an adviser to Vice President Mike Pence, testified. “The references to specific individuals and investigations, such as former vice president Biden and his son, struck me as political in nature.”
Under pressure, Trump released a rough transcript of the phone call. It showed that Trump made eight distinct requests for assistance in a Biden investigation.
“I would like you to do us a favor though, because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.”
“I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine.”
“I would like you to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it.”
“Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.”
“Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great.”
“There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.”
“Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it … It sounds horrible to me.”
“I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General [William] Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I’m sure you will figure it out.”
Around the time of the call, Trump’s White House froze the delivery of $250 million in military aid and $141 million in State Department aid to Ukraine, even though it had already been announced. Trump later claimed the action was taken because of corruption concerns, but there is no evidence the White House ever conducted a review of corruption in Ukraine during the two months the aid was on hold. The White House never rebutted the Defense Department’s finding that Ukraine had made sufficient progress on corruption to merit the assistance.
Behind the scenes, key players understood what was really happening. William Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, had texted Gordon Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, on Sept. 1: “Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?” Sondland, in a phone call, replied that “everything” was dependent on an announcement of a probe, including security assistance. Trump wanted Zelensky “in a public box,” and that required a public statement, Sondland told Taylor.
Indeed, by early September, Zelensky was so desperate for the aid to be released that he gave in to the pressure and agreed to an interview with CNN in which he would announce a probe of Biden. But he then canceled the interview after a whistleblower report on the Trump call became public. Amid the political firestorm, the White House released the aid.
So what did Zelensky say at the time? He had to be very careful. There was no upside to admitting he felt pressured during the July 25 call. First, it would have made him look weak to his constituents. Second, he did not want to anger Trump.
In early October 2019, Zelensky told reporters: “There was no pressure or blackmail from the U.S. I had no idea the military aid was held up. When I did find out, I raised it with [Vice President] Pence at a meeting in Warsaw.”
As we have shown, Zelensky wasn’t being truthful. He was under pressure to announce an investigation, and would have if not for the whistleblower complaint. In any case, he made no specific reference to Trump.
Then, that December, Zelensky spoke to Time magazine and other outlets. At the time, Trump proclaimed Zelensky said in the interview that Trump did “absolutely nothing wrong.”
Nowhere in the interview did Zelensky say that.
In fact, when asked to clarify the “issue of the quid pro quo,” he criticized Trump’s comments about corruption in Ukraine and his decision to suspend military aid.
Reporter: “When did you first sense that there was a connection between Trump’s decision to block military aid to Ukraine this summer and the two investigations that Trump and his allies were asking for? Can you clarify this issue of the quid pro quo?”
Zelensky: “Look, I never talked to the president from the position of a quid pro quo. That’s not my thing. … I don’t want us to look like beggars. But you have to understand. We’re at war. If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us. I think that’s just about fairness. It’s not about a quid pro quo. It just goes without saying.”
The Pinocchio Test
As before, Trump is putting words in Zelensky’s mouth — this time with Zelensky standing right next to him. He never said Trump did “absolutely nothing wrong.” He certainly did not say it “loud and clear.” Instead, Zelensky at the time denied being blackmailed and suggested he did not see a quid pro quo. Those statements are probably worthy of some Pinocchios, given that at one point he was willing to announce an investigation of Biden to secure the release of the aid frozen by Trump.
But this is not as egregious as Trump. For claiming Zelensky said something he did not say, Trump earns Four Pinocchios. Zelensky’s words from 2019 may be open to some interpretation, but not such a whitewash.
Four Pinocchios
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